From Isabel.Fernandez.Gonzalez@cern.ch Mon Nov  8 11:36:00 2004
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:57:09 +0200
From: Isabel Fernandez Gonzalez 
To: Maria Dimou 
Cc: Chris Onions ,
     Karoly Lorentey ,
     Ian Neilson , tlevshin@hppc.fnal.gov,
     d.p.kelsey@rl.ac.uk, Joni Hahkala 
Subject: RE: PIE database: The meaning of Participation_End_Date (fwd)

Hello,

Please, try the following link:

http://service-procedures.web.cern.ch/service-procedures/pie/procedures.htm




> From your comments below, I don't understand whether there is 
> a secondary 
> Participation_End_Date in addition to the primary one.


Sure, that you may have end dates for a primary participation and for
secondary participations.
The key, it's that you can not have a secondary participation opened
without a primary open at the same time.

I send you several cases:



------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
 
Last Name  First Name  Experiment  Primary Experiment  Participation
Start Date  Participation End Date  Leader  

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
 
WICKENS JOHN CMS N 09.07.2002 28.03.2003   
WICKENS JOHN CMS Y 29.04.2003    
WICKENS JOHN DELPHI Y 17.10.1998 28.03.2003 
WICKENS JOHN DELPHI N 29.04.2003 

Last Name  First Name  Experiment  Primary Experiment  Participation
Start Date  Participation End Date  Leader  

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
 
SAUVAGE JOCELYNE IS332 N 27.04.2000     
SAUVAGE JOCELYNE IS315 N 17.10.1998 27.02.2001       
SAUVAGE JOCELYNE IS428 N 29.07.2004     
SAUVAGE JOCELYNE IS383 Y 27.04.2000     
SAUVAGE JOCELYNE IS332 Y 17.10.1998 26.04.2000    

Best regards.
isabel

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Maria Dimou-Zacharova [mailto:dimou@mail.cern.ch] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 11:00 AM
> To: Isabel Fernandez Gonzalez
> Cc: Chris Onions; Karoly Lorentey; Ian Neilson; 
> tlevshin@hppc.fnal.gov; d.p.kelsey@rl.ac.uk; Joni Hahkala
> Subject: RE: PIE database: The meaning of Participation_End_Date (fwd)
> 
> 
> Isabel,
> thank you for your answer but the link is broken.
> I tried a lot to guess the right one but I believe everything 
> under AdminMan is in trouble, like: 
> 

http://as-div.web.cern.ch/as-div/AdminMan/English/PIE/p_personne_participation1.htm 

> 
> http://as-div.web.cern.ch/as-div/AdminMan/chapeng.html
> etc.
> 
> From your comments below, I don't understand whether there is 
> a secondary 
> Participation_End_Date in addition to the primary one.
> 
> Thanks and regards
>  - maria
> 
> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Isabel Fernandez Gonzalez wrote:
> 
> > Dear all,
> > 
> > I think we provided you with the PIE procedure, you will find the 
> > chapter related to the participation at: 
> > 
> http://as-div.web.cern.ch/as-div/AdminMan/French/PIE/p_personne_participation.htm
> > 
> > Just some reminds:
> > A person  participates to an experiment as member of a team 
> ( it means 
> > on behalf of an institute) 
>> A person may have several participations
> > Only one participation is defined as the primary one
> > The participation information is dated (from a date to a date)
> > The procedure indicates when a participation can be ended.
> > Participation information is approuved by the team leader
> > 
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > isabel
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Maria Dimou-Zacharova [mailto:dimou@mail.cern.ch]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 1:26 PM
> > > To: Isabel Fernandez Gonzalez; Chris Onions
> > > Cc: Karoly Lorentey; Ian Neilson; tlevshin@hppc.fnal.gov; 
> > > d.p.kelsey@rl.ac.uk; Joni Hahkala
> > > Subject: PIE database: The meaning of Participation_End_Date (fwd)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Dear colleagues,
> > > I never received an answer to my appended message of last
> > > July. We still need to understand:  1. whether the 
> > > Participation_End_Date can only take one value, 
> > > even for members of multiple experiments.
> > >  2. whether it is always filled-in or left empty and
> > >  3. whether this value (when present) is reliable.
> > > 
> > > Section 5 of
> > > https://edms.cern.ch/file/481701/0.1/GDB_Proposal_20040713.doc
> > > explain our concerns in respect to "end-dates" information. 
> > > Thanks in advance and regards
> > > - maria
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 14:42:40 +0200 (CEST)
> > > From: Maria Dimou-Zacharova 
> > > Reply-To: Maria.Dimou@cern.ch
> > > To: Headoftheusersoffice ,
> > >      PIEdeveloper 
> > > Cc: ian.neilson@cern.ch, tlevshin@hppc.fnal.gov, 
> d.p.kelsey@rl.ac.uk,
> > >      joni.hahkala@cern.ch
> > > Subject: PIE database: The meaning of Participation_End_Date
> > > 
> > > Dear colleagues,
> > > in the framework of our investigation for possible use of CERN HR
> > > information in the process of LHC Computing Grid (LCG) user 
> > > registration we gave a Questionnaire to the experiment 
> > > secretariats concerning 
> > > their user registration procedures.
> > > 
> > > We received answers that led us to conclude that the field
> > > "Participation_End_Date" in CERN HR db, is not managed today, 
> > > i.e. users 
> > > are not deleted when this date is reached, especially if they 
> > > continue 
> > > their participation in an experiment different to the one for 
> > > which the 
> > > Participation_End_Date is reached.
> > > 
> > > We wonder whether it is possible to foresee, in the long-term,
> > > more than one Participation_End_Date, e.g. 
> > > Primary_Participation_End_Date 
> > > and Secondary_ Participation_End_Date, i.e. one such date per 
> > > experiment 
> > > affiliation. Maybe there exist more than one 
> "Participation_End_Date" 
> > > already today? Please advise!
> > > 
> > > FYI, you can find the questionnaire and the answers in
> > > http://cern.ch/dimou/lcg/registrar/TF/
> > > by selecting the links:
> > > 
> > > Questionnaire_to_LHC_Experiments.txt       
> > > Questionnaire_ALICE_answers.txt            
> > > Questionnaire_ATLAS_answers.txt            
> > > Questionnaire_LHCb_answers.txt 
> > > Questionnaire_CMS_answers.doc              
> > > Questionnaire_CMS_RegistrationForm2004.doc
> > > 
> > > Thank you very much in advance for your advice.
> > > Best regards
> > > --
> > > - maria
> > > 
> -- 
> Maria Dimou-Zacharova               http://cern.ch/dimou
> CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland
> Maria.Dimou@cern.ch, Tel: +41-22-7673356, Fax: +41-22-7674900
> 
>